“Our government has surrendered. The border is completely open,” says Rusty Childress -- what you’d expect to hear from a conservative.

“We are a nation of laws, a sovereign nation,” says State Rep. Russell Pearce -- what you’d expect to hear from a conservative.

It’s about the economy and diversity, stupid, says State Rep. Ben Miranda -- just what one would expect to hear from a liberal.

“I challenge each of you before using figures to look into the eyes of illegals. Don’t look at this issue from an academic view. Look at it from a human point of view before enacting laws based on an academic study,” says Alfonso Munoz Salazar -- just the emotional argument we’ve grown accustomed to from liberals.

“I’m here to talk specifically about immigration and Protect Arizona Now. This initiative is probably the most heavy-handed way to approach the issue,” said Alfredo Gutierrez -- more of what one expects to hear from a liberal.

Those remarks came Thursday night before a mostly college-age crowd at Chandler-Gilbert Community College during a debate on the border invasion. Three liberals debated two of the senior officials of the Protect Arizona Now petition aimed at requiring people to show proof of citizenship before obtaining certain public benefits and prior to voting. Cong. Jeff Flake, one of the co-sponsors of a proposed guest worker bill, cancelled out of the debate.

The tone of the debate was cordial until the very end when Pearce and Gutierrez squared off in disagreement over how well the PAN initiative was written. Liberals and Republican Party leadership have claimed that PAN is poorly written. Pearce said it was well-written with the assistance of seven constitutional attorneys.

Miranda helped frame the connect between liberals and Republican leadership over the PAN issue. Twice Miranda indicated support for the Temporary Worker Program proposed by President George Bush.

“Sanctions won’t work because they’re going to be politically divisive,” Miranda said. “PAN is driven by frustration. It will be costly and unenforceable; it’s impractical.”

Childress and Pearce repeatedly carpet bombed their rivals with statistics and realities of the hardships imposed upon Americans by the border invasion. Their liberal opponents danced around those realities, ignoring the stresses and strains placed upon citizens and focusing instead on emotion, diversity, the economy and the perspective of illegal border invaders.

“I demand government accountability and zero excuses,” Childress said. “I’m opposed to illegal aliens and their supporters. This is all about law and order. The economy will not collapse. We are no longer a sovereign nation. We have lost control of the borders. The Bush Temporary Worker Program puts corporations in control of immigration policy.”

In Pearce’s opening remarks, he said: “We are a nation of laws, and we are a sovereign nation. There is an invasion going on, and people are not coming here just for jobs. The invasion is destroying America. Crime is up 60 percent in Phoenix. Forty-two percent of illegals are on welfare. What we can’t have is uncontrolled immigration. Our healthcare and education systems and our neighborhoods are under attack. Wages are being suppressed. I get messages every day by people who are being undercut. If you want to come here, come here through the front door, not the back door. Our borders must be secure and our laws enforced. Citizens deserve nothing less.”

Miranda countered: “This is an emotional issue. It is driven by emotion on one side and by economics on another. I want to thank President Bush for addressing an issue long overdue. Calling people names doesn’t help. It’s more than a problem. It’s an opportunity for this country to go to the next stage of economic development. Mexico is going to suffer a labor shortage. We need to draw those individuals here and do a better job of ID’ing those individuals.” Incidentally, the name-calling Miranda had called Pearce and State Rep. Randy Graf, another senior advisor to PAN, “racists” last year.

Childress disagreed on the Bush plan. “The amnesty program doesn’t address immigration. The problem with Bush’s plan is that it’s unlimited. There are no caps. We have to put troops on the border; Mexico does. There is nothing more permanent than a temporary worker. They’re coming here and not leaving.” He complained that politicians won’t give him the time of day when he attempts to engage them in discussion about the border invasion. “The disconnect (between Republicans and their party leaders) is the size of the Grand Canyon,” Childress said.

After Miranda challenged everyone to show how Matricula Consular ID cards present a security threat, Childress pulled a coup by displaying an ID card he had obtained for $29 and which mistakenly listed his birth place as Mexico. As he demonstrated, the cards are unreliable and the process can be easily manipulated. These cards are sold in Arizona every day.

Pearce reinforced the folly of the cards: “The Matricula Consular card is a threat, the FBI says. It is not a reliable form of ID. If you are legitimately in this country, you can get an ID card. Foreign IDs are not reliable. ID theft is the leading form of crime.”

The most emotional exchange of the debate actually occurred between Salazar and several members of the audience who were incensed with his insistence that everyone present “is a criminal” who breaks the law by exceeding speed limits. Salazar said he drove 85 mph on his way to the debate, where he repeatedly made emotional appeals to his fellow “lawbreakers.”

“People here illegally are not criminals because they break the law,” Salazar said. “If you think that, you’re just as much a criminal. All they want to do here is work and contribute to family values. Politicians don’t understand the situation. I challenge each of you before using figures to look into the eyes of illegals, and to have a meal with them. Don’t look at this issue from an academic view. Look at it from a human point of view before enacting laws based on an academic study.”

Salazar also appealed to the audience by saying he thought this was a compassionate and Christian nation. When audience members heckled him for calling them criminals, moderator Cynthia Dunham called for order.

Pearce has had countless opportunities through state, regional and national media to make the case for enforcement of immigration laws already on the books.

“The guest worker program is amnesty,” Pearce said. “It rewards people who violate immigration laws. Arizona has become a bloated welfare state. Since the president’s plan was announced, it was like putting a welcome mat out. The invasion is up 28 percent since then. We have 79 visas and people have the ability to come here legally. You can’t even talk about a guest worker program until you secure the border. $1.4 billion was lost last year in private hospitals. These people don’t want to be Americans. Something has got to change, or you’re going to lose your country. Hold elected officials accountable.”

Miranda, who said he keeps going back to his Christian upbringing on the illegal immigration topic, blames multinational corporations for moving from Mexico and Central America to the Far East. He claimed those displaced Mexican workers are the ones flooding into the U.S.

“Our international policy contributed to that, and we have a responsibility” to illegal aliens, Miranda said. “It’s simply the price we pay because it will yield dividends down the road. Diversity is a strength in this nation, not a weakness.”

Gutierrez, who ran for governor as a Democrat in 2002, said, “There is not one among us who doesn’t see the need for immigration reform. Immigration is causing serious issues in this country. It is driving wages down. I was driving a jeep and 14 guys were chasing after me and I got scared. They were looking not for a handout, but a job. The McCain-Flake-Kolbe guest worker bill is an appropriate bill. The president’s proposal is a fuzzy set of principles. People have rights when they come here. Get them out of the underground economy into an above-ground economy.”

The notion of sanctions is “silly,” Gutierrez says. “As long as Walmart has you to buy their products, you’ll fund this problem. If you want to see the culprit, look in the mirror. We be he.”

An employer himself, Childress said that employers “have blood on their hands” for hiring illegals, 100 of whom are coming into Arizona each hour.

Pearce pointed to alarming upheavals in illegal alien crime and a five-fold increase in Arizona’s AHCCCS program from 2001 to 2003. “It’s going to bankrupt this nation,” he said. “We are a generous nation, and that is why they come here.”

“There is a point where you destroy everything great,” Pearce said. “A lot of these people (nations) export their criminals here. Colorado has a huge problem with the Russian Mafia. In Los Angeles, there is a gang of illegals that is 16,000 strong.”

“Taxpayers are being bankrupted,” Childress added. “And $15 billion is being sent south of the border that is not being spent here.

Munoz responded that we should embrace illegals, but “throw the bad apples out.”

Childress urged the audience to become students of the border issue and to contribute to the efforts to get PAN onto the 2004 election ballot. “It’s very simple,” he said. “We’re not changing any laws; we are simply asking for IDs.”

Gutierrez concluded that if voters pass the PAN initiative next November, “you’ll have to run around everywhere with your social security card. Vote against it.”

Truth be known, many American carry their SS card in their wallet; it’s hardly an inconvenience or justification for opposing PAN.